Comments on: Next time they should probably carpool

By: curmudgeon57

curmudgeon57 — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 15:32:44 +0000

@bryan: I'm not joking. My experience working for a Detroit-based company was after the year 2000, so I would imagine that the culture has not changed substantially, if at all. It's very much a command and control culture, created and fostered by the auto industry, where your work is strictly defined by your position and the layers are many and separate. I don't think they know how to do it any other way.

By: bryanfromhouston

bryanfromhouston — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 00:02:17 +0000

@curmudgeon: If that is the attitude of Detroit, I say a plague on their houses. I work in the building of one of the most successful oil companies in the world, and there are no private elevators to the top floor here. There is no executive washroom for our top people. Sure, they make a bunch of money, but they aren't silly with it.
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Further, I think it is probably just evidence of the cognitive dissonance of too many Americans. Still stuck in a fantasy world that just simply does not exist.

By: curmudgeon57

curmudgeon57 — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 22:42:11 +0000

@Bryan: Cost doesn't matter, at least from the standpoint of the bailout. It's all about attitude. I worked for a large Detroit company at one time (not an auto manufacturer, and I don't live there). All of the executives are on the top floor, and have private elevator access to the top floor. The key to the executive washroom is a big status symbol.
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These people don't know how to change with the times. The executives, and the workers that are left. It should be blown up, and it will, but maybe not as soon as it should.

By: bryanfromhouston

bryanfromhouston — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:31:42 +0000

@ Curmudgeon,
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You'll get no argument from me. My point was that the miniscule costs of a jet in comparison to really large problems was merely a distraction. It was the shiny little object to keep folks from recognizing the obvious...the bailout emporer has no clothes!!! Granted, if GM did cut excess costs (like the jet, gym memberships, etc.) it would make them more cost efficient, BUT IT WILL NOT SAVE THEM. Nothing will...short of taxpayer funded handouts so that they can pay their workers to build cars which nobody either wants to or can afford to buy.
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Exhibit A: http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/11/viewed_from_afar_its_lovely.php
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The reality is that whether the Big 3 go through a bailout or bankruptcy....those jobs, those communities, the UAW as people know it is toast.
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Further, we in this country from the top politicians on down have a real problem with cognitive dissonance. The economics (and what a dismal science it is) of the situation dictate either state-run auto companies or a massive (by MASSIVE, I mean at least 1/2 of all production, management, car lines, workers and facilities let go!!).
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Just like a jumbo airliner that stalls on takeoff, the only hope of salvation is to dump the cargo that weighs the plane down, and even then you had better have a parachute. This is one of those situations in life where something starts down a chain and all you can do is sort of watch in horror, say oh $hit, and pray to your Creator.

By: curmudgeon57

curmudgeon57 — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:00:41 +0000

@bryan: Some company CEOs have private jets. It is in part an issue of old versus new economy companies. Bill Gates always flies commercial. But if you were an old economy CEO, a private jet boosted your status among your peers. And yes, among that crowd size matters. These folks just never adapted to changing times, in any way.
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And don't give me the BS that the Wagoner et al need the security afforded by a private jet. If Gates never needed it, they certainly don't.

By: bryanfromhouston

bryanfromhouston — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:27:05 +0000

A little bit of both....the first time I wrote it was Freudian however.

By: plukasiak

plukasiak — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:04:01 +0000

Trust me, the Calvary is coming, the Calvary is coming.

was this a brilliant pun, or a freudian slip?

By: donthelibertariandemocrat

donthelibertariandemocrat — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 01:09:48 +0000

Here's your book title:

"Next time they should probably carpool:The Myth of the Rational Market"

By: bryanfromhouston

bryanfromhouston — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:41:04 +0000

pluk,
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Chill, buddy. The Big O hasn't arrived at 1600, yet! Trust me, the Calvary is coming, the Calvary is coming.
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As far as the image of a private plane...don't most big company CEOs have one. It was just a ridiculous ploy by talking heads to discuss something, ANYTHING, but the reality and gravity of the situation.
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What is that you say? The auto industry (AROUND THE WORLD) is coming up on a huge period of contraction. When you design a better mousetrap, you ultimately will sell less mousetraps. GM's real problem is that they are making too much of a product that nobody wants to or can afford to buy. Business is just that simple. RIP GM, Chrysler and maybe, Ford.

By: plukasiak

plukasiak — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 22:01:09 +0000

isn't it interesting that Hank Paulson's buddies didn't have to come up with a plan in order to get bailed out to the tune of 700 BILLION dollars? Pelosi and Reid should be ashamed of themselves (as should Obama) -- this "bail out stockbrokers while watching auto-workers making on average less than $30/hr" crap is what we should be able to expect from the GOP -- and the reason I didn't bother to even vote is that I knew that this Obama was going to be the same kind of crappy "leader" on economic issues that Bush has been for the last eight years.