The economics of the McCain-Obama debate

this is why you shouldn't invite swiss people over for dinner. They can be rude and interupt the television show.

Hey, go easy on the swiss, they're great people with a great country--

But back to the debate. I don't know about everybody else, but the constant talking down to Obama by McCain and the unwillingness to even look at him struck me as just plain rude. McCain has got to be losing votes on this.

It's like he somehow thinks that because he's been in the Senate longer, he is entitled to the Presidency. If someone constantly talked down to me like that, I'd probably get a bit annoyed (and maybe that was the point, to see if he could get Obama riled or mad).

As far as the economic bailout, I agree with the point made in the article--where's the beef? Neither candidate came prepared to discuss it in any detail. I thought the foreign relations discussion showed how much they agree (with the exception of the Iraq vs Afghanistan thing, where the disagreements are quite clear).

Overall, a very boring, but safe performance by both candidates. I guess we should just be glad we got to hear about the issues and their positions--and not a bunch of nonsense about Bridges to Nowhere, about Lipstick on Pigs, about who owns the most houses or about what their reverend said in church.

It was boring. But, watching the debate with a great wine... priceless!

Lets see,

no more buldge bracket investment banks,
nationalization of AIG and the GSEs,
WaMu, the biggest bank failure in history,
maney markets in panic,
interbank credit freeze,
subprime godzilla,
global CDS minefield,
rising unemployment,
TARP chaos,
is it time to panic?

No! Its time to sing

OBLADI OBLADA (MARKET LIFE GOES ON)
(the Beatles)
(adapted by WilliamBanzai7)

Ben Bernanke plays backstop for the market place
Henry is cleaning up subprime quicksand
Bernanke says to Henry - we've got to save this place
And as he says this the two of them shake hands.

[ Chorus: ]
Obladi oblada markets go on bro
Lala how that market life goes on
Obladi Oblada markets go on bro
Lala how that market life goes on.

Bernanke takes a trolley from the Fed money store
Buys a 700 billion dollar bailout ring
Takes it back to Henry waiting at the door
And as he gives it to him the markets start to sing.

[ Chorus ]

In a couple of years they have refinanced
all our home sweet homes
With a couple of big banks running in the yard
And Hank and Ben sitting on the market throne.

Happy ever after in the market place
Bernanke lets the bankers lend a hand
Henry stays at home and keeps his poker face
And in the evening they both like
to sing out with the band.

[ Chorus ]

In a couple of years they have refinanced
all our home sweet homes
With a couple of big banks running in the yard
With Ben and Hank sitting on the market throne.

Happy ever after in the market place
Benrnanke lets the bankers lend a hand
Henry stays at home and keeps his poker face
And in the evening they both sing out with the band.

[ Chorus: ]
Obladi oblada markets go on bro
Lala how that market life goes on
Obladi Oblada markets go on bro
Lala how that market life goes on.

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(interesting views from Mr. Musam)

JOHN McCAINS MISSED TARP CRISIS

A RARE OPPORTUNITY TO VIEW A CLUTCH PERFORMANCE; YIKES!
(WilliamBanzai7)

Putting aside all the political posturing over the TARP summit
(the Torpedoed Asset Recovery Plan), among the
astonishing events of the past week was the
rare opportunity to glimpse both of our Presidential candidates
shaking and baking in a genuine national crisis. As a result of
Sage McCain's grand gesture of pushing the campaign
pause button for a powder break, both he and Mr. Obama were hauled into
the TARP snake pit. Barack Obama never made any
pretense of being able to Rambo the situation. So I will cut him the slack he deserves. After all
he is very busy running for President.

On the other hand, Mr. "All Hands on Deck" insinuated that it was
imperative for him to indefinitely suspend the Presidential
campaign so he could save TARP, the financial markets and his deteriorating standing in
the Polls. Well, if you do a little web searching, you
will learn what observers from both political parties reported
regarding Mr. McCain's rousing performance. Apparently he
kept his hatch tight for most of the meeting. Finally, when asked
for his view, he babbled some incomprehensible
platitudes. What more could we expect from a guy whose
claim to fame is seeing the big picture,
managing a contentious political meeting and getting the job done for the
good of country . Something that
by all accounts was already being handled by certain
Democrat and GOP leaders.

I'll tell you what I expect. If you are a candidate for
President and you publicly insert yourself into an
emergency situation (yes, when the largest bank failure
in US history is simultaneously unfolding it is sort of an emergency), you better have something interesting or
important to say. That is what a President is supposed to do. No?

Well, Mr. "All Hands What the Heck" blew it out the blow hatch.
He apparently had no grand wisdom to impart to the room full of experts, President's, partisans and bipartisans.
You know something is up when even Bush is rolling his
eyeballs. Its says a lot about Mr. McCain as well as the quality of the
advice he is getting. I learned a long time ago,
never ever go to a meeting unless you know what you
are going to say when called upon. And more importantly,
make sure its relevant. Otherwise, don't bother showing.

I also believe in respect for your elders. But it would be
foolish to count that maxim as a good reason for
electing someone like this for President. Its
a mistake similar to a similar mistake this country has already made twice in
8 years, to wit "vote for the guy you'd like to drink beer with."

I hear the spread on McCain election default swaps has
shot through the roof.

i agree with you justin. very depressed about two pathetic choices.

I actually don't think they're two pathetic choices. I just really hate presidential debates.

I tried watching it while distracting myself with a crazy sci-fi book (electric church) but even then it was too boring and I had to turn it off.

I thought both McCain and Obama were clearly nervous, which surprised me.

I completely disagree. McCain's tie was awful. Small stripes to not film well.

Other than that, I would agree the debate was mostly uneventful.

They kind of both played safety gloves on. Let the other guy make the big blunder thats gonna lose him the election.Their positions have been clear before so it was no surprise. Also shows how these guys are without aides to whisper stuff in their ears. McCain seemed to try and act younger, while Obama played all wise statesman.
Now Sarah "I can see Russia" and Joe "Foot in the Mouth" are comping up, that's there for entertainment.
http://iwannacrib.com

@Courtney: I was watching in HD, and the stripes really did look pretty good. In regular TV transmission maybe not so great. Perhaps McCain's polling has showed that he needs to make progress among owners of HD sets.

I agree that last night did not cinch a debate winner and that the candidates largely danced around the economy. Democratic bias aside, I feel that the debate swung in Barack's favor for 3 simple reasons:
1. last night was supposed to be McCain Turf (security and foreign policy). The economic debacle changed that.
2. given that it swung towards the economic side, you are certainly right, Obama missed a couple gimmes, though still came off a bit stronger. However I think it makes sense that both largely avoided detailed economics. I think they both realize how potentially unpopular the bail-out is. Neither wanted to acknowledge too much and be seen as in favor of a terrible plan. On the flip-side neither wanted to attack the plan or discuss details of how the plan would impact their budgets and be seen as the one who further stalled negotiations on capitol hill.
3. McCain is behind in the polls and needed to whoop Obama to make gains. (hence some of the false attacks)

I saw the first debate as a tie, which for McCain is a disaster. It was in this debate, at least in the foreign-policy part, where he was supposed to dominate, and he didn't dominate. And with him slipping dramatically every day in the polls, he needed to dominate decisively.

Yes, he did recite impressively all the exotic places he's been to and leaders he's met, but completely lacking was the "...and therefore here's the policy I am going to effect that is tailored to each."

A huge missed opportunity for McCain, and a bit scary, too, because I suspect this reflects his true self--impulsive decisions made on-the-spot, maverick-like, often surprising even his closest supporters.

Might work when you're in the cockpit of a Navy fighter with nobody at risk but yourself, but doesn't work when a nation is at stake.

Rearding economic policy, there was quite a distinction:

- McCain repeating the ideologically pure stance of the neoconservatives: "cut taxes," "cut taxes" and watch benefits trickle down to the consuming class;

- Obama saying more sensibly, I think, increase taxes for those above $250,000 a year (like me, by the way), and cut taxes in these tough times for the consuming class for a bottom-up benefit.

By all economic metrics I can find, the trickle-down hopes of the neoconservatives didn't come to fruition over the past eight years. But McCain seems to be saying "let's run the lab experiment again, the same way, and maybe it'll work THIS time."

I know McCain said in his books that he was not a good student. Seems he missed that lecture in sophomore lab that said don't repeat the same experiment exactly the same way twice if it didn't work the first time.

I feel very strongly that Obama has the edge in this debate. Obama gains a lot and the winner. It's not a tie.

McCain - in many ways, poor debater, more attacker, less professional, no eye-contact with Obama [very very strange to me], and several points - Obama was better in response.

Also, Obama showed his positive approach to deal with people - when you agree with part of it - say so - to win the heart and move forward with people that disagrees with you. In this case, Obama is surely a winner - but McCain never commented positive on Obama which is bad based on my perspective. I feel that a good negotiator's approach is like Obama.

THESE are my fair opinion from a outsider of US. I feel that this young guy Obama has more intellect and judgement ability than John, and this will eventually good for USA, and great for the world - if he gets the ticket for Presidency this time. World needs a person like Obama who will discuss problems with others.

Being the grt nation and the most powerful one --- WHY NOT USA approach to talk with other leaders to mitigate issues and problems? Only threat and arguments are not the way?

This debate shows that Obama has clear WIN and I wish the best for him.

Best regards.

"McCain also said, "This isn't the beginning of the end of this crisis, this is the end of the beginning." So does that mean it's gonna get a lot worse? He never elaborated."

That was just McCain aping Winston Churchill. I'm sure he was also thinking of smoking a cigar for good measure before his aides nixed that idea.

am I reading that CIA link wrong? Is it saying that Germany has more exports than the entire European Union, of which it is a member? Am I missing something?

Re: The 1st Debate
I was impressed by Obama being very knowledgeable, articulate, sometimes humorous but somewhat naive. It only proves two things –he is a very well educated and has extraordinary oratorical skills. He is very good at talking. What has he done?
I am worried about Obama's continuing belief that McCain's changing of his position when circumstances change is “flip-flopping” and portrays a lack of leadership ability (which I believe to be not true), while Obama on the other hand seems to be rigid and inflexible on many issues and is unable or unwilling to change his position regardless of the changing circumstances.
I like McCain's quick answers to questions and his ability to make quick decisions about complicated issues. Obama tends to want to wait around and study the situation before being willing to act – not a good trait for the leader of the free world to have in times of crisis or emergency.
I found McCain's life experiences, his first hand knowledge of international geo-politics and the involved world leaders to be a powerful asset in this fast changing geo-political climate. I don't think anyone can dispute his levels of honor and honesty that he exhibited during his service in the Navy, his imprisonment in Hanoi , and his service in state government and in government at the national level. Conversely, I do not think Obama's life experiences – a couple of years as a community organizer, a University Professor, a few years as a state legislator, and three years as a U.S. Senator - have been adequate to prepare him for the Presidency of the United States. (Over a year and a half of his Senatorial stint have been spent campaigning.)
Obama's unwillingness or inability to list any areas or programs he would be willing to cut or delete during this financial crisis is extremely troublesome. He actually wanted to add funds to many programs - to expand spending at almost every level, and yet, at the same time he claims to want to cut taxes for 95% of taxpayers. I think we all know where the necessary revenue for his spending programs will be coming from. McCain's proven desire and ability to cut unnecessary spending, and his promise to veto all pork barrel projects (except those with proven worth) along with his unique position as “a maverick” make him the person we must have to lead us as President of the United States during these tumultuous times.
John McCain is the kind of person I will feel comfortable with as leader of our country – especially in these frightening political times around the globe and these potentially devastating financial times at home.
Barrack Obama may make an adequate leader of our country at some future point but NOT NOW – he needs to gain experience in the Senate (preferably by being in the chamber occasionally and voting yea or nay). He has proven himself to be a great talker, he just needs more years gaining “seasoning” and “toughening” to learn to be a “doer”.
Bottom line: If Obama is elected President, I believe with all my being that his woeful inexperience and indecisiveness coupled with a Democrat House and Senate – no checks and balances between the Legislative and Executive branches of government – will cause our country extraordinary harm and will send us spiraling into a socialist state from which we will possibly never recover, I could be wrong, but the risk is too great, and I'm not willing to take the chance on a candidate whose strongest suit is his ability to talk..
We must have John McCain as our President – a man with a proven record. A Doer
From The Old Man

I learned is that McCain either can not or will not look in the eye or even look at people he dislikes. If he is unable to look at his opponent for the presidency, a peer, how will he look at world leaders he dislikes or believes are his/our enemies?

@Hutch: That confused the heck out of me at first too, but now I get it. The Germany export number includes stuff exported to Holland, Belgium, France, etc. But the EU number only counts stuff exported to non-EU countries.