<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The case for clawing back some of that Wall Street pay</title>
	<atom:link href="http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2008/01/09/the_case_for_clawing_back_some/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2008/01/09/the_case_for_clawing_back_some/</link>
	<description>Commentary on the economy, the markets, and business</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 11:23:59 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: That Anonymous Dude</title>
		<link>http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2008/01/09/the_case_for_clawing_back_some/comment-page-1/#comment-8402</link>
		<dc:creator>That Anonymous Dude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2008/01/09/the_case_for_clawing_back_some/#comment-8402</guid>
		<description>I worked at Goldman for 11 years.  They do not have a clawback mechanism on an individual basis.  While the quality of people I worked with was generally good, and the review process and hiring process better than many other places, I still worked with a number of bull market &#039;stars&#039; who turned turned into frogs when the various market segments crashed.  Being in the right seat at the right time is still a good money making strategy (if hard to reliably implement)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I worked at Goldman for 11 years.  They do not have a clawback mechanism on an individual basis.  While the quality of people I worked with was generally good, and the review process and hiring process better than many other places, I still worked with a number of bull market 'stars' who turned turned into frogs when the various market segments crashed.  Being in the right seat at the right time is still a good money making strategy (if hard to reliably implement)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: p_lukasiak</title>
		<link>http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2008/01/09/the_case_for_clawing_back_some/comment-page-1/#comment-8401</link>
		<dc:creator>p_lukasiak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:12:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2008/01/09/the_case_for_clawing_back_some/#comment-8401</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The CEOs of non-profits, such as those at universities and hospitals, are compensated at levels that are several orders of magnitude lower than what their counterparts receive in the for-profit sector, yet the former often endure the same levels of stress, work the same long hours, and require the same level of talent and creativity to get the job done. &lt;/i&gt;

good point.  I would also add that there have been a spate of multimillionaires all over the country running for office (usually with self-financing campaigns) -- and lots of multimillionaires willing/eager to take upper level positions in government....and their pay is a pittance compared to private sector compensation.

Nor do I hear a lot of the people who celebrate the huge amounts of money being made on Wall Street demanding much higher wages for public officials because we&#039;ll get better qualified people if we institute those raises...
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The CEOs of non-profits, such as those at universities and hospitals, are compensated at levels that are several orders of magnitude lower than what their counterparts receive in the for-profit sector, yet the former often endure the same levels of stress, work the same long hours, and require the same level of talent and creativity to get the job done. </i></p>
<p>good point.  I would also add that there have been a spate of multimillionaires all over the country running for office (usually with self-financing campaigns) -- and lots of multimillionaires willing/eager to take upper level positions in government....and their pay is a pittance compared to private sector compensation.</p>
<p>Nor do I hear a lot of the people who celebrate the huge amounts of money being made on Wall Street demanding much higher wages for public officials because we'll get better qualified people if we institute those raises...</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tom Donohue, NewsVisual</title>
		<link>http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2008/01/09/the_case_for_clawing_back_some/comment-page-1/#comment-8400</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Donohue, NewsVisual</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:16:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2008/01/09/the_case_for_clawing_back_some/#comment-8400</guid>
		<description>The notion that CEO positions will remain vacant unless they offer an extravagant compensation package is an untested idea that should be tested soon.  The CEOs of non-profits, such as those at universities and hospitals, are compensated at levels that are several orders of magnitude lower than what their counterparts receive in the for-profit sector, yet the former often endure the same levels of stress, work the same long hours, and require the same level of talent and creativity to get the job done.  The Boards of Directors at corporations should rethink their assumptions on executive compensation as soon as possible.  At the very least, it could serve to improve the morale of the vast majority of the workforce.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The notion that CEO positions will remain vacant unless they offer an extravagant compensation package is an untested idea that should be tested soon.  The CEOs of non-profits, such as those at universities and hospitals, are compensated at levels that are several orders of magnitude lower than what their counterparts receive in the for-profit sector, yet the former often endure the same levels of stress, work the same long hours, and require the same level of talent and creativity to get the job done.  The Boards of Directors at corporations should rethink their assumptions on executive compensation as soon as possible.  At the very least, it could serve to improve the morale of the vast majority of the workforce.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: p_lukasiak</title>
		<link>http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2008/01/09/the_case_for_clawing_back_some/comment-page-1/#comment-8399</link>
		<dc:creator>p_lukasiak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:58:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2008/01/09/the_case_for_clawing_back_some/#comment-8399</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Believe it or not, I&#039;m a proponent of progressive taxation, too, but punitive taxation is right out. Slap a 63% tax on anyone and just watch how fast we all move to the Maldives. I don&#039;t like New York City that much. Just watch what happens to the tax base when 5% of the population and 50% of the wealth moves offshore: ouch.&lt;/i&gt;

oh, It looks like I forgot to mention my 90% tax on assets switched to offshore accounts?  ;-)

that being said, of course the 63% tax rate thing was a joke -- a reference to Justin&#039;s obsession (which I like) with Denmark.  Nevertheless, I do think all these tax cuts for the upper income brackets have had seriously negative consequences for the economy, because while such cuts may have a marginal positive impact on productivity, they have a massive impact on encouraging greed by switching the focus for corporate profits from reinvestment/better wages to executive compensation and short-term capital gains distribution.

(i.e.  lower taxes on high incomes wind up being counter-productive to the long term economic health of companies.  Instead of long-term reinvestment strategies designed to increase the overall real value of a corporation&#039;s assets, its turned into a get rich quick scheme.  And while stock prices go up, its not because the companies are really worth more, its because the growth in capital available for investment lags way behind the creation of good places to put the money that the rich are getting -- and anytime that the demand for an item exceeds the supply, the price of that item inevitably rises not because its intrisically worth more, but merely because its in short supply.)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Believe it or not, I'm a proponent of progressive taxation, too, but punitive taxation is right out. Slap a 63% tax on anyone and just watch how fast we all move to the Maldives. I don't like New York City that much. Just watch what happens to the tax base when 5% of the population and 50% of the wealth moves offshore: ouch.</i></p>
<p>oh, It looks like I forgot to mention my 90% tax on assets switched to offshore accounts?  <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>that being said, of course the 63% tax rate thing was a joke -- a reference to Justin's obsession (which I like) with Denmark.  Nevertheless, I do think all these tax cuts for the upper income brackets have had seriously negative consequences for the economy, because while such cuts may have a marginal positive impact on productivity, they have a massive impact on encouraging greed by switching the focus for corporate profits from reinvestment/better wages to executive compensation and short-term capital gains distribution.</p>
<p>(i.e.  lower taxes on high incomes wind up being counter-productive to the long term economic health of companies.  Instead of long-term reinvestment strategies designed to increase the overall real value of a corporation's assets, its turned into a get rich quick scheme.  And while stock prices go up, its not because the companies are really worth more, its because the growth in capital available for investment lags way behind the creation of good places to put the money that the rich are getting -- and anytime that the demand for an item exceeds the supply, the price of that item inevitably rises not because its intrisically worth more, but merely because its in short supply.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: The Epicurean Dealmaker</title>
		<link>http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2008/01/09/the_case_for_clawing_back_some/comment-page-1/#comment-8398</link>
		<dc:creator>The Epicurean Dealmaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:21:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2008/01/09/the_case_for_clawing_back_some/#comment-8398</guid>
		<description>Sorry, Justin, my keyboard got a little carried away.  I just don&#039;t know how that happens ...

P. Lukasiak -- Woof.  Believe it or not, I&#039;m a proponent of progressive taxation, too, but punitive taxation is right out.  Slap a 63% tax on anyone and just watch how fast we all move to the Maldives.  I don&#039;t like New York City that much.  Just watch what happens to the tax base when 5% of the population and 50% of the wealth moves offshore: ouch.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, Justin, my keyboard got a little carried away.  I just don't know how that happens ...</p>
<p>P. Lukasiak -- Woof.  Believe it or not, I'm a proponent of progressive taxation, too, but punitive taxation is right out.  Slap a 63% tax on anyone and just watch how fast we all move to the Maldives.  I don't like New York City that much.  Just watch what happens to the tax base when 5% of the population and 50% of the wealth moves offshore: ouch.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: p_lukasiak</title>
		<link>http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2008/01/09/the_case_for_clawing_back_some/comment-page-1/#comment-8397</link>
		<dc:creator>p_lukasiak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 21:46:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2008/01/09/the_case_for_clawing_back_some/#comment-8397</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I&#039;m pretty certain that assumptions 1,2 and 4 are in fact part of Kotlikoff&#039;s calculations and 3 probably is. So yeah, it&#039;s a wealth tax! (In a vacuum, at least.)&lt;/i&gt;

well, it would have to be in a vacuum, because only in a vacuum would things like irrevocable trusts whose principal can&#039;t be touched not exist.

Crust is right.  Its not a wealth tax.  Bill and Milinda, and their kids, and &lt;b&gt;their&lt;/b&gt; kids, and &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;their&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt; kids, and &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;THEIR&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt; kids, could live off the wealth accumulated by Gates and not even come close to touching the principle.

****************
But back to the subject of the thread... what I&#039;d do to deal with the Wall Street pay dilemma is impose a tax of 63% over all income over $70K, thereby discouraging extravagant compensation packages for both alphas and betas -- alphas, being alphas, can&#039;t help but continue to work, and one beta is as good as another, and there is no shortage of them! ;-)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I'm pretty certain that assumptions 1,2 and 4 are in fact part of Kotlikoff's calculations and 3 probably is. So yeah, it's a wealth tax! (In a vacuum, at least.)</i></p>
<p>well, it would have to be in a vacuum, because only in a vacuum would things like irrevocable trusts whose principal can't be touched not exist.</p>
<p>Crust is right.  Its not a wealth tax.  Bill and Milinda, and their kids, and <b>their</b> kids, and <i><b>their</b></i> kids, and <i><b>THEIR</b></i> kids, could live off the wealth accumulated by Gates and not even come close to touching the principle.</p>
<p>****************<br />
But back to the subject of the thread... what I'd do to deal with the Wall Street pay dilemma is impose a tax of 63% over all income over $70K, thereby discouraging extravagant compensation packages for both alphas and betas -- alphas, being alphas, can't help but continue to work, and one beta is as good as another, and there is no shortage of them! <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Justin Fox</title>
		<link>http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2008/01/09/the_case_for_clawing_back_some/comment-page-1/#comment-8396</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Fox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 16:41:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2008/01/09/the_case_for_clawing_back_some/#comment-8396</guid>
		<description>Got it. It might just be--in the same sense that *any* tax, except maybe a poll tax, can be construed to be, by those who are really inclined to do so--a tax, sort of, on wealth. But it&#039;s not a wealth tax.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Got it. It might just be--in the same sense that *any* tax, except maybe a poll tax, can be construed to be, by those who are really inclined to do so--a tax, sort of, on wealth. But it's not a wealth tax.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Crust</title>
		<link>http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2008/01/09/the_case_for_clawing_back_some/comment-page-1/#comment-8395</link>
		<dc:creator>Crust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 16:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2008/01/09/the_case_for_clawing_back_some/#comment-8395</guid>
		<description>Justin, in countries that have a wealth tax (e.g. France) it is a tax that it is levied every year on a person&#039;s wealth.  Really, that&#039;s the essential feature -- love it or hate it -- of a wealth tax:  the same money gets taxed over and over again.  That just doesn&#039;t happen under the FairTax.  We can grant Kotlikoff all his assumptions about multi-generational spending and so on, but that still doesn&#039;t happen.  Even if you conflate spending, income and wealth.  Sorry.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Justin, in countries that have a wealth tax (e.g. France) it is a tax that it is levied every year on a person's wealth.  Really, that's the essential feature -- love it or hate it -- of a wealth tax:  the same money gets taxed over and over again.  That just doesn't happen under the FairTax.  We can grant Kotlikoff all his assumptions about multi-generational spending and so on, but that still doesn't happen.  Even if you conflate spending, income and wealth.  Sorry.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Justin Fox</title>
		<link>http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2008/01/09/the_case_for_clawing_back_some/comment-page-1/#comment-8394</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Fox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 16:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2008/01/09/the_case_for_clawing_back_some/#comment-8394</guid>
		<description>@Crust: Unless you conflate spending with wealth. This is what Kotlikoff et. al. are doing: Saying that lifetime spending, not assets at any particular time, is the true measure of a person&#039;s wealth. Leaving aside whether that&#039;s total nonsense or not, there&#039;s still the issue of passing on that wealth to future generations. I guess you could have an estate tax with the same rate as the sales tax, but I assume the FairTaxers would hate that. Which leaves you with nothing but the hope that the sales tax will hit profligate future generations.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Crust: Unless you conflate spending with wealth. This is what Kotlikoff et. al. are doing: Saying that lifetime spending, not assets at any particular time, is the true measure of a person's wealth. Leaving aside whether that's total nonsense or not, there's still the issue of passing on that wealth to future generations. I guess you could have an estate tax with the same rate as the sales tax, but I assume the FairTaxers would hate that. Which leaves you with nothing but the hope that the sales tax will hit profligate future generations.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Crust</title>
		<link>http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2008/01/09/the_case_for_clawing_back_some/comment-page-1/#comment-8393</link>
		<dc:creator>Crust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 16:06:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2008/01/09/the_case_for_clawing_back_some/#comment-8393</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Sorry, I never got past the first two letters of the Greek alphabet. ;-)&lt;/i&gt;

Touche.  I used too much jargon.  My basic point is it&#039;s important to understand the asymmetry of returns involved in selling options and how it naturally leads to such situations.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Sorry, I never got past the first two letters of the Greek alphabet. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </i></p>
<p>Touche.  I used too much jargon.  My basic point is it's important to understand the asymmetry of returns involved in selling options and how it naturally leads to such situations.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
